Συζήτηση:Ουρούμ

Dear Wiki people,

I am wondering based on what sources the authors of this article created a separate group of Greeks, called them Urums and classified them as a separate branch of Greeks, different from Pontic Greeks? I refer to Greeks from Tsalka.

It is obvious that the authors do not possess sufficient knowledge of historical facts.

Firstly, the term Urum, (i. e. Rum) has been in use by (Ottomans) Turks in relation to All Orthodox Christians in the Ottoman Empire and specifically to Greeks. There was no distinction between Urum from Morea, Pontus, Cyprus or Kurdistan. This self-determination simply means that someone calls himself Greek in Ottoman Turkish. I am unsure whether separate branches of Greeks should also be created, such as 'Greeks' (EN), 'Grecs'(FR) etc - based on the same principle.

Secondly, all Greeks from Tsalka region who call themselves Urum in Turkish are descendants of Greeks who migrated to Georgia in waves, starting from 18th century from different areas of Pontus (such as Santa, Matsuka, Gümüşhane (Argiroupolis), Bayburt (Paipert), Kelkyt, Shiran, Erzerum etc).

There was minor group from Erzerum area (which might be considered as a border point of Pontus) who migrated with General Paskevich after the Russian-Turkish war in 1828-29. However, again, this group was previously resettled in that area from inner Pontus, such as Gümüşhane (Argiroupolis), Kelkyt, Shiran.

Thirdly, the majority of Greeks in Asiatic Turkey in 18-19th centuries spoke either exclusively in Turkish or had Greek as a second language. The only purely Greek speakers in Asiatic Turkey in that period were people from very remote areas with limited contact with outside world. Do not forget that Turkish language was lingua franca for all nations (Armenians, Asyrians, Jews, Turks, Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians etc) in the empire.

Indeed, many people who were initially arriving from Ottoman Empire to Tsalka were bilingual. In 19th century the common language in Tsalka region was Turkish. Armenians, Georgians, Tatars and Greeks used Turkish as a common language. As a result, many Greeks who brought their language from Pontus, stopped using Pontic Greek and became turkophones. A good and clear example might be two villages Imera (same name as the village they came from near Gümüşhane) and Gunya Kala.

It should be understood that in 19th century all Greeks in Asiatic Turkey when speaking in Turkish identified themselves as Urum or Rum.

Therefore, what has been done by the authors of this article is based on lack of historical knowledge. A proper research is needed otherwise Wikipedia becomes yellow press.— ανυπόγραφο σχόλιο του χρήστη 193.117.174.102 (συζήτηση • συνεισφορά) 07:20, 13 Απριλίου 2020.